The Mind in the Wheel – Part XI: Other Methods

[PROLOGUE – EVERYBODY WANTS A ROCK]
[PART I – THERMOSTAT]
[PART II – MOTIVATION]
[PART III – PERSONALITY AND INDIVIDUAL DIFFERENCES]
[PART IV – LEARNING]
[PART V – DEPRESSION AND OTHER DIAGNOSES]
[PART VI – CONFLICT AND OSCILLATION]
[PART VII – NO REALLY, SERIOUSLY, WHAT IS GOING ON?]
[INTERLUDE – I LOVE YOU FOR PSYCHOLOGICAL REASONS]
[PART VIII – ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE]
[PART IX – ANIMAL WELFARE]
[PART X – DYNAMIC METHODS]


There’s a fascinating little paper called Physiological responses to maximal eating in men

The researchers recruited fourteen men (mean age: 28 years old) and invited them back to the lab to eat “a homogenous mixed-macronutrient meal (pizza)”. The authors note that “this study was open to males and females but no females signed up.” 

They invited each man to visit the lab two separate times. On one occasion, the man was asked to eat pizza until “comfortably full”. The other time, he was asked to eat pizza until he “could not eat another bite”.

When asked to eat until “comfortably full”, the men ate an average of about 1500 calories of pizza. But when asked to eat until they “could not eat another bite”, the men ate an average of more than 3000 calories. 

Study Materials

The authors view this as a study about nutrition, but we saw it and immediately went, “Aha! Pizza psychology!”

While this isn’t a lot of data — only fourteen men, and they only tried the challenges one time each — it shows some promise as a first step towards a personality measure of hunger and satiety, because it measures both how hungry these boys are, and also how much they can eat before they have to stop.

When asked to aim for “could not eat another bite”, the men could on average eat about twice as much pizza compared to when they were asked to aim for “comfortably full”. But there was quite a lot of variation in this ratio for different men:  

All the men ate more when they were asked to eat as much as they could, than when they were asked to eat as much as they liked. But there’s a lot of diversity in the ratio between those two values. When instructed to eat until they “could not eat another bite”, some men ate only a little bit more than they ate ad libitum. But one man ate almost three times as much when he was told to go as hard as he can. 

People have some emotions that drive them to eat (collectively known as hunger), and other emotions that drive them to stop eating (collectively known as satiety). While these pizza measurements are very rough, they suggest something about the relationship between these two sets of drives in these men. If nothing else, it’s reassuring to see that for each individual, the “could not eat another bite” number is always higher. 

It’s a little early to start using this as a personality measure, but with a little legwork to make it reliable, we might find something interesting. It could be the case, for example, that there are some men with very little daylight between “comfortably full” and “could not eat another bite”, and other men for whom these two occasions are like day and night. That would suggest that some men’s hunger governor(s) are quite strong compared to their satiety governor(s), and other men’s are relatively weak. 

The general principle of personality in cybernetic psychology is “some drives are stronger than others”. So for personality, we want to invent methods that can get at the question of how strong different drives are, and how they stack up against each other. Get in loser, we’re making a tier list of the emotions. 

We may not be able to look at a drive and say exactly how strong it is, since we don’t yet know how to measure the strength of a drive. We don’t even know the units. When this is eventually discovered, it will probably come from an unexpected place, like how John Dalton’s work in meteorology gave him the idea for the atomic theory. 

But we can still get a decent sense of how strong one drive is compared to another drive. This is possible whenever we can take two drives and make them fight. 

Personality psychology be like

Some drives are naturally in opposition — this pizza study is a good example. The satiety governor(s) exist specifically to check the hunger governor(s). Hunger was invented to start eating, and satiety was invented to make it stop. So it’s easy to set up a situation where the two of them are in conflict. 

Or somewhat easy. We think it’s more accurate to model the pizza study as the interaction between three (groups of) emotions. When asked to eat until “comfortably full”, the hunger governor voted for “eat pizza” until its error was close to zero, then it stopped voting for “eat pizza”, so the man stopped. That condition was simple and mainly involved just the one governor.

The other condition was more complex. When asked to eat until they “could not eat another bite”, the hunger governor first voted for “eat pizza” until its error was close to zero. Then, some kind of “please the researchers” governor(s) kept voting for “eat pizza” to please the researchers. 

At some point this started running up against the satiety governor. The satiety governor tracks something like how full you are, so as the man started to get too full, the satiety governor started voting against “eat pizza”. The man kept eating until the vote from the “please the researchers” governor(s) was just as strong as the vote from the satiety governor, at which point the two votes cancel out and the man could not eat another bite. 

This reveals the problem. In one sense, hunger and satiety are naturally in opposition. Hunger tries to make you eat enough and satiety tries to make sure you don’t eat enough too much. But in a healthy person, there’s plenty of daylight between the set points of these two drives, and they don’t come into conflict. 

Same thing with hot and cold — the drive that tries to keep you warm is in some sense “in opposition” to the drive that tries to keep you from overheating, but they don’t normally fight. If you have a sane and normal mind, you don’t put on 20 sweaters, then overheat, then in a fit of revenge take off all of your clothes and jump in a snowbank, etc. These drives oppose each other along a single axis, but when they are working correctly, they keep the variable they care about in a range that they agree on. Hunger and satiety, and all the paired governors, are more often allies than enemies. 

But any two drives can come into conflict when the things they want to do become mutually exclusive, or even just trade off against each other. Even if you can do everything you want, the drives will still need to argue about who gets to go first. Take something you want, anything at all, and put it next to a tiger. Congratulations, fear is now in conflict with that original desire. 

Many people experience this conflict almost every morning:

This is actually a more complicated situation, where the governors have formed factions. The pee governor wants to let loose on your bladder. But your hygiene governor votes against wetting the bed. Together they settle on a compromise where you get up and pee in the toilet instead, since this satisfies both of their goals (bladder relief + hygienic). 

But the governor that keeps you warm, the sleep governor (who wants to drift back into unconsciousness), and any other governors with an interest in being cozy, strenuously oppose this policy. They want you to stay in your warm, comfy bed. So you are at an impasse until the bladder governor eventually has such a strong error signal — you have to take a leak so bad — that it has the votes to overrule the cozy coalition and motivate you to get up and go to the bathroom. 

The point is, the bladder governor, warmth governor, and sleep governor don’t fundamentally have anything to do with each other. They all care about very different things. But when you have to pee in the middle of the night, their interests happen to be opposed. They draw up into factions, and this leads to a power struggle — one so universal that there are memes about it. And as is always the case in politics, a power struggle is a good chance to get a sense of the relative strength of the factions involved.

If you met someone who said they didn’t relate to this — they always get up in the middle of the night to pee without any hesitation or inner struggle — this would suggest that their bladder governor is very strong, or that their warmth and/or sleep governors are unusually weak. Whatever the case, their bladder governor wins such disagreements so quickly that there doesn’t even appear to be a dispute. 

In contrast, if your friend confesses that they have such a hard time getting up that they sometimes wet the bed, this suggests that their bladder governor, and probably their hygiene governor, are unusually weak compared to the governors voting for them to stay in bed. 

To understand these methods, we have to understand the difference between two kinds of “strength”. 

In general when we say that a drive is strong, we mean that it can meet its goals, it can vote for the actions it wants. This is why we can learn something about the relative strength of two drives by letting them fight — we can present the organism with mutually exclusive options (truth or dare?) and see which option it picks. If we have some reasonable idea which drive would pick which option, we know which drive is stronger from which option is picked. 

However! Another way a drive can be strong is that it can have a big error signal in that moment. If you are ravenously hungry, you will eat before anything else. If you are in excruciating pain, you will pull your hand off the stove before doing anything else. This kind of urgency tells us that the current error is big, but it doesn’t tell us much about the governor. 

A drive does get a stronger vote when its variable is further off target. But it’s also true that for a given person, some drives seem stronger in all situations. 

The normal sense of strength gets at the fact that a governor can be stronger or weaker for a given error. Some people can go to sleep hungry without any problem. For other people, even the slightest hint of appetite will keep them awake. When we talk about someone being aggressive, we mean that they will drop other concerns if they see a chance to dominate someone; if we talk about someone being meek, we mean the opposite. 

The current strength of any drive is a function of the size of its current error signal and the overall strength or “weight” of the governor. Unfortunately, we don’t know what that function is. Also, it might be a function of more than just those two things. Uh-oh! 

Ideally, what we would do is hold the size of the error constant. If we could make sure that the error on the salt governor is 10 units, and the error on the sweet governor is 10 units, then we could figure out which governor is stronger by seeing which the person would choose first, skittles or olives. This is based on the assumption that the strength of the vote for each option is a combination of the size of the errors and the strength of the governor itself. Since in this hypothetical we know that the strength of the errors is exactly the same, the difference in choice should be entirely the result of the difference in the strength of the governors.

Unfortunately we don’t know how to do that either. We don’t know how to measure the errors directly, let alone how to hold the size of the errors constant. 

But we can use techniques that should make the size of some error approximately constant, and base our research on that. The closer the approximation, the better. 

The important insight here is that even when we can’t make measurements in absolute terms, we can often make ordinal comparisons. “How strong is this drive” is an impossible question to answer until we know more about how strength is implemented mechanically, but we can make very reasonable guesses about which of two drives is stronger, what order their strengths are in, i.e. ordinal measurements. 

We can do this two ways: we can compare one of your drives to everyone else’s version of that same drive, or we can compare one of your drives to your other drives.

Compare One of Your Drives to Everyone Else’s Version of that Same Drive

The first is that we can compare one of a person’s drives to the same drive in other people. 

It’s reasonable to ask if your hunger, fear, pain, or shame drive is stronger or weaker than average. To do this, we can look at two or more individuals and ask if the drive is stronger for one of them or for the other. 

This will offer a personality measure like: your salt governor is stronger than 98% of people. You a salty boy.

Again, to get a measure of strength, we need to make everyone’s errors approximately constant. One way we can make errors approximately constant is by fully satisfying the drive. So if we identify a drive, like the drive for salt, we can exhaust the drive by letting people eat as much salt or salty food(s) as they want. Now all their errors should be close to zero. Then we can see how long it takes before they go eat something salty again. If someone goes to get salty foods sooner, then other things being equal, this is a sign that their salt governor is unusually strong.

This won’t be perfectly the same, and other things will not be perfectly equal. Some people’s salt error may increase more quickly than others’, like maybe they metabolize salt faster, or something. So after 5 hours without salty foods, some people’s error may be much bigger than others’. But it should be approximately equal, and certainly we would learn something important if we saw one guy who couldn’t go 10 minutes without eating something salty, and someone else who literally never seemed to seek it out. 

When we say things like, “Johnnie is a very social person. If he has to spend even 30 minutes by himself he gets very lonely, so he’s always out and spending time with people. But Suzie will go weeks or even months without seeing anyone,” this is a casual version of the same reasoning, and we think it’s justified. It may not get exactly at the true nature of personality, but it’s a start. 

When we figure out what the targets are for some governors, we’ll be able to do one better. For example, let’s imagine that we find out that thirst is the error for a governor that controls blood osmolality, and through careful experimentation, we find out that almost everyone’s target for blood osmolality is 280 mOsm/kg. Given the opportunity, behavior drives blood osmolality to 280 mOsm/kg and then stops.

If we measure people’s blood osmolality, we can dehydrate them to the point where their blood osmolality is precisely 275 mOsm/kg. We know that this will be an error of 5 mOsm/kg, because that’s 5 units less than the target. Then we would know almost exactly what their error is, and we could estimate the relative strength of their thirst governor by measuring how hard they fight to get a drink of water. 

On that note, it’s possible that a better measure than time would be effort. For example, you could take a bunch of rats and figure out the ideal cage temperature for each of them. Separately, you teach them that pushing a lever will raise the temperature of their cage by a small amount each time they press it. 

Then, you set the cage temperature 5 degrees colder than they prefer. This should give them all errors of similar magnitude — they are all about 5 degrees colder than they’d like. Then you give them the same lever they were trained on. But this time, it’s disconnected. You count how many times they press the lever before they give up. This will presumably give you a rough measure of how much each rat is bothered by being 5 degrees below target, and so presumably an estimate of the strength of that governor. If nothing else, you should observe some kind of individual difference. 

Compare One of Your Drives to Your Other Drives

The second approach is to ask how your drives compare to each other, basically a ranking. We can look at a single person and ask, in this person, is drive A stronger than drive B? 

The main way to do this is to give the person a forced choice between two options, one choice that satisfies governor A, and the other that satisfies governor B. This doesn’t have to be cruel — you can let them take both options, you just have to just make them choose which they want to do first.

This would offer a personality measure like: you are more driven by cleanliness than by loneliness, which is why you keep blowing off all your friends to stay in and scrub your toilet.

There are some drives that make us want to be comfortable and other drives that make us want to be fashionable; there are at least some tradeoffs between comfort and fashion; if you reflect on each of the people in your life, it’s likely that you already know which coalition of drives tends to be stronger in each person.  

Every time you see someone skip work to play videogames, refuse to shower even when it ruins all their friendships, blow up their life to have an affair with the 23-year-old at the office, or stay up late memorizing digits of pi, you are making this kind of personality judgment implicitly. People have all kinds of different drives, and you can learn a lot about which ones are strongest by seeing which drives are totally neglected, and which drives lead people to blithely sacrifice all other concerns, as though they’re blind to the consequences.

The Bene Gesserit, a sect of eugenicist, utopian nuns from the Dune universe, use a simplified version of this method in their famous human awareness test, better known as the gom jabbar. Candidates are subjected to extreme pain and ordered not to pull away, at penalty of taking a poisoned needle in the neck. In his success, Paul demonstrates that some kind of self-control governor is much stronger than his pain governor, even when his pain error is turned way up.

“What’s in the box?” “A personality test.”

But no shade to the Bene Gesserit, this is not a very precise measure. By turning the pain governor’s error extremely high, they can show that a candidate has exceptional self-control. But this doesn’t let them see if self-control is in general stronger than pain, because the error gets so huge. To compare the strength of governors, you ideally want the error signals to be as similar as possible.

As before, the best way to get at strength is to take two drives, try to make their errors as similar as possible, and then see which drive gets priority. Other things being equal, that drive must be stronger. 

When we were trying to compare personality between people, this was relatively easy. If nothing else, we were at least looking at the same error. We can’t get an exact measure of the error, but we could at least say, both of these people have gone 10 hours without eating, or 20 hours without sleep, or are ten degrees hotter than they find comfortable. These are the same kinds of things and they are equal for both people.

But to compare two governors within a single person, we are comparing two different errors, and we have no idea what the units are. So it may be hard to demonstrate differences between the strength of the governors when those differences are small. If one error is ten times stronger than the other, then we assume that the governor behind that error will win nearly all competitions between the two of them. If one error is 1.05 times stronger than the other, that governor has an edge, but will often get sidelined when there are other forces at play.

But like the common-sense examples above, it should be possible to make some comparisons, especially when differences are clear. For example, if we deprive a person of both sleep and food for 48 hours (with their consent of course), then offer them a forced choice between food and sleep, and they take the food, that suggests that their drive to eat may be stronger than their drive to sleep. This is especially true if we see that other people in the same situation take the option to sleep instead. 

If we deprive the person of sleep for 48 hours and food for only 4 hours, and they still choose the food over sleep, that is even better evidence that their drive to eat is stronger than their drive to sleep, probably a lot stronger. 

While these methods are designed to discover something inside an individual person, they might also shed some light on personality differences between people. For example, we might find that in most people, the sugar governor is stronger than the salt governor. But maybe for you, your salt governor is much stronger than your sugar governor. That tells us something about your personality in isolation (that one drive is stronger than another), and also tells us something about your personality compared to other people (you have an uncommon ordering of drives). 

Return to Pizza Study

The pizza study is interesting because it kind of combines these techniques.

Each person was compared on two tasks — “comfortably full” and “could not eat another bite”, which gives us a very rough sense of how strong their hunger and satiety governors are. If you ate 10 slices to get to “comfortably full” and only 12 slices to get to “could not eat another bite”, your satiety governor is probably pretty strong, since it kicks in not long after you ate as much as you need. (There could be other interpretations, but you get the gist.) 

In addition, each person can be compared to all the other people. Some men could eat only a little more when they were asked to get to “could not eat another bite”. But one man ate almost three times as much as his “comfortably full”. This man’s satiety governor is probably weaker than average. There are certainly other factors involved, but it still took a long time before that governor forced him to stop eating, suggesting it is weak. 

A final note on strength. The strength of a governor is probably somewhat innate. But it may also be somewhat the result of experience. If someone is more motivated by safety than by other drives, some of that may be genetic, but some of that may be learned. It would not be ridiculous to think that your mind might be able to tune things so that if you have been very unsafe in your life, you will pay more attention to safety in the future.

Even the part that’s genetic (or otherwise innate) still has to be implemented in some specific way. When one of your governors is unusually strong, does that governor have a stronger connection to the selector? Does it have the same connection as usual, but it can shout louder? Does it shout as loud as normal, but it can shout twice as often? We don’t know the details yet, but keep in mind that all of this will be implemented in biology and will include all kinds of gritty details. 

Deeper Questions

People can differ in more ways than just having some of their drives be stronger than others. For example, some people are more active than other people in general, more active for every kind of drive. They do more things every single day. 

Some people seem to get more happiness from the same level of accomplishment. For some people, cooking dinner is a celebration. For others, routine is routine. 

Some people seem more anxious by default. Even a small thing will make them nervous. 

These seem like they might be other dimensions on which people can differ, and they don’t seem like they are linked to specific governors. 

Studying the strength of the governors is nice because the governors are all built on basically the same blueprint, so the logic needed to puzzle out one of them should mostly work to puzzle out any of the others. The methods used to study one governor should work to study all of them, only minor tweaks required. If you find techniques to measure the strength of one governor, you should be able to use those techniques to measure the strength of any governor.

But other ways in which people differ seem more idiosyncratic. They are probably the result of different parameters that tune features that are more global, each of which interacts with the whole system in a unique and different way. So we will probably need to invent new methods for each of them. 

That means we can’t yet write a section on the different methods that will be useful. These methods still need to be invented. And we might only get to these methods once we have learned most of what there is to know about the differences in strength between the governors, and have to track down the remaining unexplained differences between people. But we can give a few examples to illustrate what some of these questions and methods might look like.

Learning

Every governor has to have some way of learning which behaviors increase/decrease their errors. We don’t know exactly how this learning works yet, but we can point to a few questions that we think will be fruitful.

For example, is learning “both ways”? 

The hot governor (keeps you from getting too hot) and the cold governor (keeps you from getting too cold) both care about the same variable, body temperature. Certainly if you are too cold and you turn on a gas fireplace, your cold governor will notice that this corrects its error and will learn that turning on the gas fireplace is a good option. So when you get too cold in the future, that governor will sometimes vote for “turn on the gas fireplace”.

But what if you are too hot and you turn on the gas fireplace? Well, your hot governor will notice that this increases its error, and will learn that this is a bad option, which it will vote against if you’re in danger of getting too hot. 

What does your cold governor learn in this situation? Maybe it learns the same thing your hot governor does — that the gas fireplace increases temperature. The hot governor thinks that’s a bad outcome, but the cold governor thinks it’s a good outcome. If so, then next time you are cold, the cold governor might vote for you to turn on the gas fireplace. 

But maybe a governor only learns when its error is changed. After all, each governor only really cares about the error it’s trying to send to zero. And if that error isn’t changed, maybe the governor doesn’t pay attention. If the error is very small, maybe that governor more or less turns off, and stops paying attention, to conserve energy. Then it might not do any learning at all. 

If this were the case, the cold governor shouldn’t learn from any actions you take when you’re too hot, even when these actions influence your body temperature. And the hot governor shouldn’t learn from anything you do when you’re too cold, same deal. 

You could test this by putting a mouse in a cage that is uncomfortably hot, and that contains a number of switches. Each switch will either temporarily increase or temporarily decrease the temperature of the cage. With this setup, the mouse should quickly learn which switches to trip (makes the cage cooler) and which switches to avoid (makes the cage even more uncomfortably hot). 

Once the mouse has completely learned the switches, then you make the cage uncomfortably cold instead, and see what happens. If the cold governor has also been learning, then the mouse should simply invert its choice of switches, and will be just as good at regulating the cage temperature as before. 

But if the cold governor wasn’t paying close attention to the hot governor’s mistakes, then the mouse will have to do some learning to catch up. If the cold governor wasn’t learning from the hot governor’s mistakes at all, then the mouse will be back at square one, and might even have to re-learn all the switches through trial and error.

We definitely might expect the former outcome, but you have to admit that the latter outcome would be pretty interesting. 

The Model of Happiness

Or consider the possibility that happiness might drive learning.

This would explain why happiness exists in the first place. It’s not just pleasant, it’s a signal to flag successful behavior and make sure that it’s recorded. When something makes you happy, that signals some system to record the link between the recent action and the error correction.

This would also explain why it often feels like we are motivated by happiness as a reward. We aren’t actually motivated by happiness itself, but when something has made us happy, we tend to do it more often in the future. 

Previously we said that happiness is equal to the change in an error. In short, when you correct one of your errors, that creates a proportional amount of happiness. This happiness sticks around for a while but slowly decays over time. 

That’s a fine model as a starting point, but it’s very simple. Here’s a slightly more complicated model of happiness, which may be more accurate than the model we suggested earlier. Maybe happiness is equal to the reduction in error times the total sum of all errors, like so:

happiness = delta_error * sum_errors

If happiness is just the result of the correction of an error, then you get the same amount of happiness from correcting that error in any circumstance. But that seems a little naïve. A drink of water in the morning after a night at a five-star hotel is an accomplishment, but the same drink of water drawn while hungry and in pain, lost in the wilderness, is a much greater feat. Remembering the strategy that led to that success might be more important. 

If you multiply the correction by the total amount of error, then correcting an error when you are in a rough situation overall leads to a much greater reward, which would encourage the governors to put a greater weight on successes that are pulled off in difficult situations. If you correct an error when all your other errors are near zero, you will get some happiness. But if you are more out of alignment generally — more tired, cold, lonely, or whatever — you get more happiness from the same correction.

This might explain fetishes. Why do so many sexual fetishes include things that cause fear, pain, disgust, or embarrassment? Surely the fear, pain, disgust, and embarrassment governors would vote against these things. 

We have to assume that the horny governor is voting for these things. The question is, why would it vote for anything more than getting your rocks off? Why would an orgasm plus embarrassment be in any way superior to an orgasm in isolation?

If learning is based on happiness rather than raw reduction in error, then governors will learn to vote for things that have caused past happiness.

And if happiness is a function of total error, not just correction in the error they care about, governors will sometimes vote for things that increase the total error just before their own error is corrected. 

The point is, if happiness is a function of total error, governors will actually prefer to reduce their errors in a state of greater disequilibrium. This doesn’t decrease their error any more than in a state of general calm, but it does lead to more happiness, greater learning, and so they learn to perform that action more often. And in some cases they will actually vote to increase the errors of other governors, when they can get the votes.

The horny governor only cares about you having an orgasm. But since it learns from happiness, not from the raw correction in its error, it has learned to vote for you to become afraid and embarrassed just before the moment of climax, because that increases your total error, which increases happiness. And since the horny governor has the votes, it overrules the governors who would vote against those things.

We don’t know how to quantify any of the factors involved, so we can’t test precise models. There are probably constants in these equations, but we can’t figure those out either, at least not yet.

But we can still make reasonable tests of general classes of models. We can make very decent guesses about whether or not something is a function of something else, and we can probably figure out if these relationships are sums or products, whether relationships are linear or exponential, and so on. For example:

happiness = delta_error

This is the original model we proposed, and it’s the most simple. In this case, happiness is caused when an organism corrects any error, and the amount of happiness produced is a direct function of how big of an error was corrected. Eating a cheeseburger makes you happy because, assuming you are hungry, it corrects that error signal. The cheeseburger error. 

Not shown in that equation is the kind of relationship. Maybe it’s linear, but maybe it’s exponential. Does eating two cheeseburgers cause more than twice as much happiness as eating one?

This very simple model has the virtue of being very simple. And it seems like it lines up with the basic facts — eating, sleeping, drinking, and fucking do tend to make us happy, especially if we are quite hungry, tired, thirsty, or horny. 

But we should also think about more complex models and see if any of them are any better. For example:

happiness = delta_error * product_errors

In this case, the correction in an error is multiplied not by the sum, but by the product of all other errors. So eating a cheeseburger while tired and lonely will be much more pleasurable than eating a cheeseburger while merely tired or merely lonely. 

This seems pretty unlikely just from first glance. If happiness were dependent on the product of your other errors, that seems like it would be pretty noticeable, because the difference between correcting an error while largely satisfied and largely unsatisfied would be huge and thus obvious. But this is also something that you could test empirically and maybe there could be some kind of truth to it. 

Is this a better model? Not entirely clear, but it certainly makes predictions that can be compared to parts of life we’re familiar with, and it can be tested empirically. That’s a pretty good start.

Or another example:

happiness = delta_error / sum_errors

Instead of multiplying the correction to produce happiness, this time we tried dividing it. In this case, happiness is smaller when the total amount of error is bigger. So correcting the same error leads to less happiness if you’re more out of alignment. 

This one seems right out. The joy we get from a cup of hot chocolate is greater when we are lonely, not less. Living in extremis seems like it should only magnify the satisfaction of our experiences. It’s possible that this doesn’t stand up to closer inspection, but people certainly find the idea intuitive:

Finally, one more example. You remember this equation from the learning and memory section above: 

Another model of happiness is that happiness is proportional to the TD error in the equation above, or the equivalent in whatever system our brain really uses. The TD error is the difference between the current and projected outcome of the action and the expected outcome of the action. So in this model, we get happiness when something corrects an error by more than the governor expects

Having an especially great sandwich for the first time feels great. This is because you didn’t know how good it would be. But having the same sandwich for the 100th time isn’t as good, even if it corrects the same amount of error. This is because you anticipated it would be that good, so there’s no TD error. In fact, if the sandwich hits the spot less than usual, you’ll be disappointed, even if it’s still pretty good. 

In this model, you’d expect that doing the same enjoyable stuff over and over wouldn’t keep you happy for very long. You’d have to mix it up and try new things that correct your errors.

This model does seem to capture something important. But that said, in real life correcting a big enough error usually creates some happiness. So happiness doesn’t seem like it could be entirely based on how unexpected the correction is. Some amount of happiness seems to come from any correction. But it does seem like more unexpected corrections usually make us more happy. 

So this is an example of how we can test general models, even before we can make precise measurements. We can think about classes of models, bring them to their limits, ask how the implications of these models compare to other things we already know about life and happiness, things we experience every day.

Just thinking of these questions mechanically, thinking of them as models, prompts us to ask questions like — What is the minimum amount of happiness? Can happiness only go down to zero, or can there be negative happiness? Is there a maximum amount of happiness? Even if a maximum wasn’t designed intentionally, surely there is some kind of limit to the value the hardware can represent? Can you get happiness overflow errors? What is the quantum of happiness? What are the units? — questions that psychologists wouldn’t normally ask. 


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7 thoughts on “The Mind in the Wheel – Part XI: Other Methods

  1. Mark's avatar Mark says:

    Hey very interesting stuff. I wonder if you had any thoughts on development of goals. I have been working on this paper because I think we need to explain how we get from simple to complex goals. I think the ideas fit pretty well with this series, although there might be some areas where we disagree.

    Briefly, the idea is that humans have several innate goals that are very concrete and immediate (I am agnostic on what these goals might be, but freedom of movement, desire for novel stimuli and closeness to caregivers seem likely). These goals are always present and active. They can be momentarily sated, but never extinguished. More importantly, they are in conflict because pursuing one (e.g., being held by the caregiver) blocks progress toward another (can’t experience novel stimuli or move freely).

    Resolving this conflict is of fundamental importance. However, merely switching between goals isn’t a good solution because of limits on resources as well as the possibility of getting stuck in a loop. Instead, the self-system looks for solutions to this conflict by finding new goals that combine features of the conflict goals. A baby that experiences conflict between closeness and novelty goals might discover that being read to allows closeness while new ideas are being presented. Eventually, being read to become a goal onto itself. Over time, to further reduce conflict between goals, the child might adapt the goal of reading or even the goal of gaining knowledge.

    In that way, resolving the conflict between goals is what drives the development of more abstract, complex and long-term goals. The nice thing is that this is a bottom up process and doesn’t require top-down planning. It also helps to explain individual differences in goals, based on strength of conflict, as well as exposure to potential solutions. It also helps to explain some commonality in development, as the amount of conflict and the type of conflict probably is similar across people.

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  2. if the model `happiness = delta_error * sum_errors` is correct, then there should be fetishes related to being uncomfortably cold/hot/hungry. I haven’t seen these in isolation, like I have for pain, or needing to pee. a question I would ask is: people who fuck outside, do you cum harder during winter cold/summer heat, or when it’s a more comfortable temperature?

    the model would also have to account for non-sexual kink. the delta error from going from “being chained to a toilet and beaten” to “cuddling in bed” is pretty big, as is the total error. however, the happiness generated seems more continuous, rather than discrete: it’s fun while you’re beating someone/getting beaten, not just when it stops. (I suppose you could think of that as error reduction for non-pain governors, similar to how you modeled certain drugs? because you become such a singular, embodied being and you don’t care about most other things in the moment. I’m not sure if I’m applying the model correctly, it seems possible to invent an answer for everything…) for having someone brush your teeth, it’s a bit uncomfortable/shameful, but you also get a big correction on the loneliness governor and a small one on the hygiene governor. so would it be more fun if you were deliberately made more uncomfortable? or maybe if your mouth was made dirtier beforehand? I’m interested in practical applications. much to think about.

    what other strange things are people into? do they square with this model of happiness? what governors, if any, don’t feature as much in kink? what is it like to engage them in that way anyways?

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  3. extendingyourparadigm's avatar extendingyourparadigm says:

    I continue to love the paradigm.

    Regarding the specific algorithm for happiness, I’m leaning towards something closer to your original (non-sum/non-product) or even your quotient model.

    I have a visceral distaste for happiness being stronger with stronger total errors. It seems non-adaptive. Design two organisms, side by side, with identical everything except for this algorithm. With your new definition of happiness, both may try to maximize happiness (amongst other things). The entity that gets more happiness by having more errors seems far more prone to let its sum (or product) error drift higher than the one that has no benefit in having higher sum (or product) error. Evolution seems to favor a non-sum algorithm (or a quotient system).

    But even that doesn’t go far enough. If an organism tries to maximize happiness, and happiness is only the reduction of error (and there’s no negative happiness for generating error), then an organism is better off making problems only to solve them. That seems non-adaptive (and evolutionarily nonsensical), too. Somehow we need to invent some minor term that prevents us from wanting to drive our system out of whack.

    Accordingly, I’m kind of confused.

    But a second tangential thought that also may be of interest in your overall paradigm development (though does go a very different direction, sorry):

    I get the feeling that the governors we’re considering in these conversations are kind of the background “unconscious” flavor. I think there’s also some “conscious” governor stories. I think you get to superimpose a conscious governor on top of the background-auto-algorithm work your attention. And when you do, I think there’s a bonus super-governor associated with it. Whatever you’re thinking about gets its own error/governor/happiness factor, and it, by default, gets a bonus weighting disproportionate to typical background governors.

    Example: I get happiness from reducing the have-to-pee error by peeing. But at exactly the same starting point – I start to think about having to pee – I don’t think my bladder has changed, nor blood osmolality or whatever, I think it’s just my consciousness that changed. And then, wow, both that that error seems so much larger, and that I think I feel so much more happiness when I pee. Same benefit in happiness for scratching an itch, or eat, or drink, or whatever. The conscious observation of the error gets a huge boost in apparent error and in happiness upon error closure.

    It’s possible that buried in there is some foundational truth that I can’t articulate well about the nature/benefit of consciousness and cognition. An unconscious beast is governed solely by old school error algorithms per your above. A conscious beast capable of cognition and at the same time completely ignoring/overriding governors can hypothetically do better – it’s smart, and can foresee problems dumb chemical calculators can’t. But – even better yet – a conscious beast capable of cognition and having some weird calculation that does a little background tradeoff of governors might do than either the dumb or the so-smart-it-trumps-all-background-governors system. If I’m so cognitively strong and capable of “self-control” with my consciousness that I ignore pain, heat, cold, pee, etc., I may be great at fixing my desire for salt, but it’s really easy to kill myself that way by missing any single governor that goes crazy. But if consciousness doesn’t completely remove the impact of all the others – it just temporarily turboboosts the importance of the one factor by a factor of “10”- the others are still important – just less so. So things don’t go totally out of whack. A little bit of ability for cognition/consciousness to slightly disrupt the background governors seems likely to evolutionarily beat the heck out of dumb governors and total consciousness-trumped-governor-systems.

    One of the reasons I like this is that I didn’t like the direction your hot cocoa example took us in the happiness = sum total error story. Yes, a terrible situation may make hot cocoa super happiness inducing, but I don’t think that’s true in general. I think it’s true in the situation where you were so thinking about your coldness that you were ignoring your pee/itchy/horny, and had your concsciousness focused on your cold. It was the consciousness turboboost for that specific incident that made the hot cocoa powerful. If you were thinking about peeing, that hot cocoa wouldn’t have made you particularly happy.

    One last thought regarding personality: I like the sentiment that the relative governor weightings/etc. define personality. Two previously expressed concepts that support it. My conviction – my dog’s personality is defined by all the ways he disobeys me. If he was totally obedient to my every desire, he’d be totally boring, and just an extension of me. It’s all the ways he imposes his own deflection from my intent that makes him him, and, oddly, love him that much more. Similarly, Sir Charles Frank, eons ago: “Crystals are like people: it is the defects in them that make them interesting.”

    You’re my Thursday entertainment. Dare I ask how many more in this sequence we’ll get?

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  4. extendingyourparadigm's avatar extendingyourparadigm says:

    Sorry for too much response. Two more thoughts:

    You start your cybernetic story at psychology. That works. I think it’s an even stronger story starting with neurology. I think there’s a 1000% convincing story that cellular communications evolve from cybernetic control systems, end up finding a use for neurons, and that neurons are then also cybernetic. Then simple neural nets, the brain, and psychology are also cybernetic. It’s all the same hardware, just increasingly complicated form factors.

    I’m struggling with happiness-as-not-an-input-at-all to error correction schemes. I don’t know if you meant that, but I inferred it. I love the sentiment that we are not happiness maximizers, we are error minimizers, and that happiness somehow feels like a bonus blanket catchall for “errors were minimized in some way.” That’s (to my thinking) huge and necessary paradigm elements. However, happiness has to be expensive, so I contend it has to have an adaptive benefit (i.e. use). Accordingly, I think although happiness is an error closure success signal, I think it exists to serve a gentle input/positive-reinforcer reminding our bodies, “obviously, you’re in the business of error closing, but tweak all your weightings a little bit so you can get a little shot of happiness again.” It’s a positive reinforcer in a cybernetic paradigm. It has to be muted/subtle, because if not, your body will intentionally drive itself into pain only to remove the pain, in a maladaptive runaway loop. Perhaps you had said this, but if so I missed it. The model works for me with this, and without, there’s no home for happiness.

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  5. I hope y’all are ready for a wall of text, because I made one of those.

    When interrogating this idea, I think it is useful to consider paradoxical behaviors – behaviors where humans seek the error state. I will use myself as an example, and the example is sauna.

    My experience of sauna is in phases. The first phase is the initial sauna session, this lasts between 15 and 30 minutes (typically) and the heat is tolerated as much as I am able before I go to a cold plunge/rinse/cool-off. This feels relevant because my pleasure is directly related to the temperature delta of these two extremes. The colder the plunge, the better the experience. The hotter the sauna, the better the experience.

    Psychologically the plunge is very interesting to me. I experience it as a combination of euphoria and mental reset. I have explained it like I am being turned off and on again. It’s like my mental system that is relating my current state to my past actions and future goals is wiped. This means that my negative emotions about my life (I am not doing enough, I am failing my children, I am wasting my life, I talk too much, etc) cease. There is no past, so there are no past failed actions (or thoughts) to create error state. There is only the present. This lasts for only a few seconds (maybe less), before things start to switch back on again, but the relief is unparalleled.

    There are some other fun side-effects, like the ability to go out into subzero weather and relax. My cold governor is wildly confused, as we should be fear-of-death cold, but we are not. This sense of invincibility to the elements adds to the euphoria, this sense of control over mental/physical states that I do not normally have access to (I can’t “make” myself warm or cold, I just am…). There are interesting psychological states here.

    I do think that it makes sense to think of this as governor hacking. The extreme heat messes with the heat governor, the extreme cold messes with the cold governor. The immediate correction of the enormous error state makes the evaluation system think that it has made a huge mistake, and now error-states are revised so that hot is less hot and cold is less cold.

    So when I repeat the cycle, it is never as intense as the first round. In subsequent rounds, the heat of the sauna is far less intense and more tolerable. I can sit in the cold afterwards longer, and the “off and on again” mental experience is less intense. The plunge is less euphoric, the relief is less impactful, etc. The delta of temperature has not changed, but my governors have, and thus there are diminishing returns from this experience. I can do 3 or 4 rounds of this (1-2 hours of sauna/plunge) before it “doesn’t work anymore” and it’s time to be done.

    However, this has an interesting side-effect as my long-term memory records the entire experience as “correction”. So in subsequent sauna sessions, the heat governor is cranked into the error zone again, but the “leisure” or “mental health” governor is cranked way into the non-error state. Let’s call it the “hedonic governor” instead of “mental health” governor. My personal hedonic governor is much much MUCH stronger than almost any other governor (I think). I will tolerate a shocking amount of error state to reach big deltas. But because of the heavy weighting of the hedonic governor, a cool sauna or warm plunge is a net negative, it is not even worth doing . At some level my hedonic governor knows that the heat/cold delta will not be big enough to trigger euphoric reboot, and the entire experience is disappointing. There is an error threshold that must be met for the experience to work.

    If there is enough delta on one of the two sides (plunge cold enough and/or sauna hot enough) it can work for maybe one round, but if If the sauna is not hot enough, I experience net-hedonic-error (even though there is less heat error ). I have gone to silly extremes to try to hack this experience (hotel saunas are almost always too cool, but ice is easy to get, so I will bring buckets of ice to the hotel sauna to try to crank the delta. this also has social-error if there are bathers, it’s a desperation move – it rarely works).

    And tolerance is weird! There are both short and long term tolerance effects. My sauna sessions are examples of short-term tolerance, which makes sense to me. Our bodies get used to things, and the first time was very very different relative to normal, but the fourth time was exactly the same as the third time, the novelty is fading. This is logically mysterious (why is the tolerance a factor at all? why is novelty a critical factor of this?), but it does seem common-sense obvious. Of course that would happen. The long-term tolerance is also understandable. My appetite for hot saunas has crept up over the years. Now a 140º sauna is barely worth it, when a few years ago, that was perfectly fine. Like a hot sauce fiend, the moderate experiences just don’t produce enough correction. This long-term tolerance is harder to understand for me. I am surprised that my governors even “remember” the previous experiences. It’s almost like every time you experience hedonic release, the requirements creep higher. Like novelty is a fundamental component of the hedonic release. I like this term “hedonic release”. But the relationship between tolerance and hedonic release is weird and mysterious.

    The whole reason that I wanted to write this is that there is a strange thing that happens. Over time the hedonic governor completely eclipses the cold/hot governor. Because my subjective experience of the heat error state (before the correction) is pleasure. I don’t experience this as “anticipated pleasure” but direct pleasure itself. The heat is the pleasure and the error at the same time. This is confusing, but it does imply that there is a way for a governors to interpret error states as corrections themselves! We (maybe?) build a meta-governor that has learned that big error states mean big corrections, so for this governor, the error state is the point. The risk-taking seems insane, but it is a learned experience. The more suffering, the better. This seems extremely important, but also paradoxical and I think passes the sniff-test, we see people do this. And the subjective experience (in my opinion) is not really that a whole new governor has been born (so the comment about the “meta-governor” isn’t quite right). It’s more like the error state of the heat governor BECOMES the correction of the hedonic governor. This feels a bit like a “short-circuit”, so let’s call it that. This is a short-circuit between two governors, where the error of one becomes the correction for the other.

    Ok, finally, The Sweet Spot by Paul Bloom. I didn’t like this book very much because it didn’t get far enough into the weeds on why humans choose to suffer for fun. Ultimately the conclusion was: to give life meaning. But… ok? What does that mean? Let’s use our new model.. actually, it’s annoying that we don’t have a name for it. cyber-psychonetics is a different thing (though it feels related). Let’s use psybernetics (though there is some prior art on this word, it doesn’t seem clearly adopted). So I am going to use psybernetics. But if turns out to be problematic, my second vote is for pslimernetics (just cram some “slime” in there), this one is funnier but it is longer to type, and I think psybernetics is more sticky.

    Anyway, so let’s throw some psybernetics at the sweet spot. The first idea that popped out to me is trauma bonding and the belonging/tribal governor. Calling it the “tribal governor” seems risky, so let’s stick with belonging governor. NOTE: I know we are supposed to stay away from social governors, but I will try not to go too hard on this.

    We want deeply to be a member of a group, and so long as we are not, the belonging governor is in error. I suspect this is an epidemic, and humans will jump to almost anything (even groups that seem insane) to correct this governor. Especially during adolescence. You find a group that feels a little bit right, and it’s like you have been suffocating and finally found a full breath of air for the first time in your life. The belonging governor is maybe the most powerful one we have for many people.

    I think that extreme error states can short-circuit the belonging governor. In the same way that the hedonic governor can short circuit to the heat governor. So for a mountain climber, the harder (more suffering) the climb is, the more you belong to the mountain climber group. The error becomes the goal, and correction in the belonging governor is perceived as Life Meaning. I suspect that there are a set of governors that we could categorize as “Life Meaning” governors, and get this down more precisely (look through culture and see what is being lauded as “meaningful” and what people say feels “meaningful”). But the point here is that the suffering (the error states) become a group that can be “belonged to” a bit like how hedonic governor can see a hot sauna as correction itself.

    I hypothesize that ALL extreme error states trigger this response. Whether you realize it or not, and this is one reason why a) support groups are so effective and b) why people choose suffering. There are some confounding variables (glory/status is a powerful governor), but I think that there is something here. Some way to describe these paradoxical human experiences. I ACTUALLY find the extreme heat to be pleasurable in and of itself. I know that others find states of suffering to be goals in and of themselves. Maybe the correction was the original motivator, but after a while, that matters less than the short-circuited state itself.

    So the idea is that the stronger governor becomes connected to the error state of the weaker governor by virtue of the previously experienced correction. That’s why I experience extreme heat and cold in the context of the sauna to be pleasurable. That’s why the pain and suffering of hiking is (100% honest here) more pleasurable than the view at the summit or the recuperation afterwards. And my personal belonging-governor is (I think) unusually weak, so belonging-governor short-circuit suffering motivation doesn’t land for me, but I think it does for lots of people.

    This is also partly why I didn’t like The Sweet Spot. I immediately thought of the sauna suffering, and it does not at all feel like it is “giving my life meaning”. It just feels great, and the mental-reset relief is lovely. My life isn’t more meaningful, it is just top-shelf leisure. It’s not even really social (which I think is often related to Life Meaning) or novel (same). I needed some other reason for my psychology to seek this suffering, and I think that psybernetics gives me a model for an explanation, which is great!

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  6. Juraj Variny's avatar Juraj Variny says:

    I think it’s accepted fact that satiety switch has some delay and people who eat fast tend to overeat more. So now we got eating speed and signal delay – even in this trivial experiment there are confounding factors. To work in spirit of Lavoisier and his pals, we should consider as many of these factors as possible, as meticulously as the stuff we’re trying to measure.

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  7. Jarno Virtanen's avatar Jarno Virtanen says:

    If you have a sane and normal mind, you don’t put on 20 sweaters, then overheat, then in a fit of revenge take off all of your clothes and jump in a snowbank, etc.

    Or you are not a Finn. We, or at least some of us, go to sauna and from sauna to the “hole in the ice”, ie. ‘avanto’. Incidentally, it is during and after this I feel the happiest.

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